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So, so the question we have before us is what caused us to join the EOC? You know, was there something that happened? Well, the first thing that happened obviously was our participation in the focalari movement and this uh this knowledge that Kiara Lubik was traveling the world and had gone down to Brazil and had recognized the suffering around the city of S. Paulo. She likened it to the crown of thorns around Jesus's head where she saw the shanty towns or fllas that were there and the big skyscrapers which showed the rich were right in the downtown.

And yet they could not resolve this that you have poverty and you have richness around uh the town. And she realized that even in the folklore movement we could not suffer we excuse me we could not solve our own poverty. there were members who were poor and could not take care of themselves even despite the practice of the communion of goods that happened in the community. So she along with the community discerned that you know maybe businesses could be started to help with this poverty inequity.

It started for us, my wife and I, the realization that that happened, the idea of businesses. And we were there the first night, maybe two days after Kiara and the Brazilians came up with this idea. And Julie and I said, um, hey, who's going to do this? This is a great idea. You know, because we had had a long history of social justice and working and and thought, brilliant. This is this is something tangible. And little did we know that over the next few years um the idea would come about that we thought it was for us.